How quick will the Democrats cave?
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dm00
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 23, 2008 9:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Doc wrote:
dm00 wrote:
Quote:
If the govt is bailing these companies out, it should receive stock appreciation rights of an equal amount of the assistance.


The government has to step in because nobody else is willing to pay 700 billion for this turd of a portfolio of crappy loans. You dont see a government bailout where the gov gets their money's worth ever, if they were somebody else would have put the money up.


You don't think someone else would step in and buy the company and all the assets? You don't think China or someone in the middle east would come in and swoop up all that stock and property?

Again, I am sure I am looking at this wrong, but I am thinking our government is just doing it before another government can.


If those dopes want to pay 700 billion for our bad mortgages they can be my guest. And no i dont think they would do it as they arent stupid. They are looking for investments that will make money.

I hate this bailout but it isnt going to be all that horrible most likely. It will be like the savings and loan nonsense where they did all that bailing out. The government will get all those assets and sell them over the years and recoup quite a bit. So its not actually a 700 billion bath. Probably more like 350 or something. Still, we ought not do it imo. Fuck em.
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Skibo



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PostPosted: Tue Sep 23, 2008 11:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Manhat10ite wrote:
Skibo wrote:
I'm opposed to this bailout anyway.


So you don't think there would should be a bail out. What do you think will happen over the next 3-5 years if there isn't one?


No I don't think there should be one sided bail out. We bailed out Chrysler they paid back the loan. Merrill Lynch got bought out at an amazing discount and is recovering. The same would have happened to these other companies.
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AMiller
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 24, 2008 2:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Saw this yesterday and thought it was too good to just link. That and I'm not sure who can see it without registering.

Quote:

NY Times
September 22, 2008
Op-Ed Columnist
Cash for Trash
By PAUL KRUGMAN

Some skeptics are calling Henry Paulson’s $700 billion rescue plan for the U.S. financial system “cash for trash.” Others are calling the proposed legislation the Authorization for Use of Financial Force, after the Authorization for Use of Military Force, the infamous bill that gave the Bush administration the green light to invade Iraq.

There’s justice in the gibes. Everyone agrees that something major must be done. But Mr. Paulson is demanding extraordinary power for himself — and for his successor — to deploy taxpayers’ money on behalf of a plan that, as far as I can see, doesn’t make sense.

Some are saying that we should simply trust Mr. Paulson, because he’s a smart guy who knows what he’s doing. But that’s only half true: he is a smart guy, but what, exactly, in the experience of the past year and a half — a period during which Mr. Paulson repeatedly declared the financial crisis “contained,” and then offered a series of unsuccessful fixes — justifies the belief that he knows what he’s doing? He’s making it up as he goes along, just like the rest of us.

So let’s try to think this through for ourselves. I have a four-step view of the financial crisis:

1. The bursting of the housing bubble has led to a surge in defaults and foreclosures, which in turn has led to a plunge in the prices of mortgage-backed securities — assets whose value ultimately comes from mortgage payments.

2. These financial losses have left many financial institutions with too little capital — too few assets compared with their debt. This problem is especially severe because everyone took on so much debt during the bubble years.

3. Because financial institutions have too little capital relative to their debt, they haven’t been able or willing to provide the credit the economy needs.

4. Financial institutions have been trying to pay down their debt by selling assets, including those mortgage-backed securities, but this drives asset prices down and makes their financial position even worse. This vicious circle is what some call the “paradox of deleveraging.”

The Paulson plan calls for the federal government to buy up $700 billion worth of troubled assets, mainly mortgage-backed securities. How does this resolve the crisis?

Well, it might — might — break the vicious circle of deleveraging, step 4 in my capsule description. Even that isn’t clear: the prices of many assets, not just those the Treasury proposes to buy, are under pressure. And even if the vicious circle is limited, the financial system will still be crippled by inadequate capital.

Or rather, it will be crippled by inadequate capital unless the federal government hugely overpays for the assets it buys, giving financial firms — and their stockholders and executives — a giant windfall at taxpayer expense. Did I mention that I’m not happy with this plan?

The logic of the crisis seems to call for an intervention, not at step 4, but at step 2: the financial system needs more capital. And if the government is going to provide capital to financial firms, it should get what people who provide capital are entitled to — a share in ownership, so that all the gains if the rescue plan works don’t go to the people who made the mess in the first place.

That’s what happened in the savings and loan crisis: the feds took over ownership of the bad banks, not just their bad assets. It’s also what happened with Fannie and Freddie. (And by the way, that rescue has done what it was supposed to. Mortgage interest rates have come down sharply since the federal takeover.)

But Mr. Paulson insists that he wants a “clean” plan. “Clean,” in this context, means a taxpayer-financed bailout with no strings attached — no quid pro quo on the part of those being bailed out. Why is that a good thing? Add to this the fact that Mr. Paulson is also demanding dictatorial authority, plus immunity from review “by any court of law or any administrative agency,” and this adds up to an unacceptable proposal.

I’m aware that Congress is under enormous pressure to agree to the Paulson plan in the next few days, with at most a few modifications that make it slightly less bad. Basically, after having spent a year and a half telling everyone that things were under control, the Bush administration says that the sky is falling, and that to save the world we have to do exactly what it says now now now.

But I’d urge Congress to pause for a minute, take a deep breath, and try to seriously rework the structure of the plan, making it a plan that addresses the real problem. Don’t let yourself be railroaded — if this plan goes through in anything like its current form, we’ll all be very sorry in the not-too-distant future.

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AMiller
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 24, 2008 2:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

BTW, I also wanted to add this article http://www.nytimes.com/2008/09/23/business/worldbusiness/23krona.html?em
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Last edited by AMiller on Wed Sep 24, 2008 3:04 am; edited 1 time in total
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Doc
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 24, 2008 4:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Sen. John McCain [R-AZ]: " Mr. President, this week Fannie Mae's regulator reported that the company's quarterly reports of profit growth over the past few years were "illusions deliberately and systematically created" by the company's senior management, which resulted in a $10.6 billion accounting scandal.

The Office of Federal Housing Enterprise Oversight's report goes on to say that Fannie Mae employees deliberately and intentionally manipulated financial reports to hit earnings targets in order to trigger bonuses for senior executives. In the case of Franklin Raines, Fannie Mae's former chief executive officer, OFHEO's report shows that over half of Mr. Raines' compensation for the 6 years through 2003 was directly tied to meeting earnings targets. The report of financial misconduct at Fannie Mae echoes the deeply troubling $5 billion profit restatement at Freddie Mac.

The OFHEO report also states that Fannie Mae used its political power to lobby Congress in an effort to interfere with the regulator's examination of the company's accounting problems. This report comes some weeks after Freddie Mac paid a record $3.8 million fine in a settlement with the Federal Election Commission and restated lobbying disclosure reports from 2004 to 2005. These are entities that have demonstrated over and over again that they are deeply in need of reform.

For years I have been concerned about the regulatory structure that governs Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac--known as Government-sponsored entities or GSEs--and the sheer magnitude of these companies and the role they play in the housing market. OFHEO's report this week does nothing to ease these concerns. In fact, the report does quite the contrary. OFHEO's report solidifies my view that the GSEs need to be reformed without delay.

I join as a cosponsor of the Federal Housing Enterprise Regulatory Reform Act of 2005, S. 190, to underscore my support for quick passage of GSE regulatory reform legislation. If Congress does not act, American taxpayers will continue to be exposed to the enormous risk that Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac pose to the housing market, the overall financial system, and the economy as a whole.

I urge my colleagues to support swift action on this GSE reform legislation."

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AMiller
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 24, 2008 5:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

It's a shame he isn't the same man he was 3 years ago.
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Doc
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 24, 2008 5:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Alzheimer's will do that to you.
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AMiller
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 24, 2008 8:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

http://executivesuite.blogs.nytimes.com/2008/09/24/the-mad-as-hell-series-continues/?em

another good one.
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DalCryboy
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 24, 2008 9:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

so i guess biden and obama voting for that bridge to nowhere wasn't on any of you flaming libtard's radar screen today?
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AMiller
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 24, 2008 9:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Might be more informative to see who did have it on their radar screen's.

Interesting question, how would this info change the mind of anyone already leaning towards the dem ticket?

Or is this just an attempt to make Palin's hypocrisy easier to swallow?
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DalCryboy
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 24, 2008 10:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
No, Dal. We'll maintain our stance that this was all the republicans' evildoing.



Oh.
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AMiller
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 24, 2008 11:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

somebody just called my a flaming libtard Sad
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 28, 2019 8:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

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PostPosted: Fri Apr 03, 2020 9:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

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PostPosted: Fri Jul 03, 2020 10:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

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tuchkashttp://ultramaficrock.ruhttp://ultraviolettesting.ru
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vengful



Joined: 17 Mar 2019
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 17, 2021 9:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

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PostPosted: Fri Jul 02, 2021 3:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

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PostPosted: Fri Sep 17, 2021 3:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

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